Author Topic: Money + fast kill = Score  (Read 12203 times)

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Offline Oskar

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2009, 03:35:28 PM »
Getting the extra money has to be the better choice. Since your money is added to your score in the end, your score doesn't suffer that big a hit by not killing the enemies as fast as possible. Also, this strategy allows you to get better (ie. higher scoring) weapons earlier allowing you to harvest more seals for high points (AWP instant gibs and Grenade Launcher proximity bonus).

Could you explain your strategy a little more? What extra money do you mean?
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Offline Luskan

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2009, 04:03:29 PM »
Getting the extra money has to be the better choice. Since your money is added to your score in the end, your score doesn't suffer that big a hit by not killing the enemies as fast as possible. Also, this strategy allows you to get better (ie. higher scoring) weapons earlier allowing you to harvest more seals for high points (AWP instant gibs and Grenade Launcher proximity bonus).
In my personal experience, killing seals earlier actually gives a prominent increase.
I deiced to try it:
By instantly killing the very first seal with 2 bullets in head(70$)
and then let the second one pass I got 472 score.
If I instead let the first seal walk to the right side of the screen and then kill it with 2 bullets in head  I  only got 282 score.

Kill it instantly: 472 - 70(money received from killing it) = 402
Kill it late: 282 - 70(money received from killing it) = 212

What I'm trying to show you with this is that, killing faster do really have a significant influence on the final score.
But I do agree about that more money earlier in the game equals more powerful weapons that will increase your ability to kill the creatures faster :)


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Offline Oskar

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2009, 04:14:26 PM »
Getting the extra money has to be the better choice. Since your money is added to your score in the end, your score doesn't suffer that big a hit by not killing the enemies as fast as possible. Also, this strategy allows you to get better (ie. higher scoring) weapons earlier allowing you to harvest more seals for high points (AWP instant gibs and Grenade Launcher proximity bonus).
In my personal experience, killing seals earlier actually gives a prominent increase.
I deiced to try it:
By instantly killing the very first seal with 2 bullets in head(70$)
and then let the second one pass I got 472 score.
If I instead let the first seal walk to the right side of the screen and then kill it with 2 bullets in head  I  only got 282 score.

Kill it instantly: 472 - 70(money received from killing it) = 402
Kill it late: 282 - 70(money received from killing it) = 212

What I'm trying to show you with this is that, killing faster do really have a significant influence on the final score.
But I do agree about that more money earlier in the game equals more powerful weapons that will increase your ability to kill the creatures faster :)

Ok, but Asker mentions the AWP instant gibs and Grenade Launcher proximity bonuses.. Do those bonuses benefit the score more than the fast-killing headshots..??
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Offline Luskan

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2009, 04:19:52 PM »
Ok, but Asker mentions the AWP instant gibs and Grenade Launcher proximity bonuses.. Do those bonuses benefit the score more than the fast-killing headshots..??

I must admit that I do not know the answer to that question.
But on the other hand, in my personal experience, I've gained most score without using either grenade, grenade launcher or AWP.
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Offline Gifflo

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2009, 04:32:03 PM »
Hi there all ^^ , Joining in the discussion since it seems that you guys know what you're talking about ;). I actually haven't tried the tactic of killing seals fast, since it doesn't seem to matter at all, if you're not very much into getting a high overallscore atleast.

The only thing I've been concerned about is how to make the game harder. Me and my friend have completed it so many times so that we lost count when we reached about 20.. I'm not trying to prove anything, nor to brag with this, but I want to make clear what situation I'm currently in. We are in bad need of new content, or harder tactics to complete the game with. The most amusing thing we're doing at the moment is trying to kill the last boss with as lousy weapons as possible. Only a few days ago i succeeded in killing the walrus solo with the 2,5 k shotgun. In multiplayer mode... sigh. Ofc a friend helped me getting to the last boss, but he didn't help me kill it.

So my point with this huge post is that we should make a topic for tactics. Fun tactics both in Multiplayer and solo ofc. Hard tactics and radical new ones. So whoever is in charge of the creation of topics, should create one, or in case every single member is able to create a topic, I guess I even might consider creating it myself ;).

Xcuse me for this huge post which is kinda off topic, and please don't judge me too early, I'm (really!) NOT a bragging retard.
Thx!

Yours truly
Gifflo.
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Offline Oskar

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2009, 04:45:40 PM »
Hi there all ^^ , Joining in the discussion since it seems that you guys know what you're talking about ;). I actually haven't tried the tactic of killing seals fast, since it doesn't seem to matter at all, if you're not very much into getting a high overallscore atleast.

The only thing I've been concerned about is how to make the game harder. Me and my friend have completed it so many times so that we lost count when we reached about 20.. I'm not trying to prove anything, nor to brag with this, but I want to make clear what situation I'm currently in. We are in bad need of new content, or harder tactics to complete the game with. The most amusing thing we're doing at the moment is trying to kill the last boss with as lousy weapons as possible. Only a few days ago i succeeded in killing the walrus solo with the 2,5 k shotgun. In multiplayer mode... sigh. Ofc a friend helped me getting to the last boss, but he didn't help me kill it.

So my point with this huge post is that we should make a topic for tactics. Fun tactics both in Multiplayer and solo ofc. Hard tactics and radical new ones. So whoever is in charge of the creation of topics, should create one, or in case every single member is able to create a topic, I guess I even might consider creating it myself ;).

Xcuse me for this huge post which is kinda off topic, and please don't judge me too early, I'm (really!) NOT a bragging retard.
Thx!

Yours truly
Gifflo.

Said and done!! The Tactic thread is up  :) great idea
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Offline asker

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2009, 11:13:31 PM »
Ok, but Asker mentions the AWP instant gibs and Grenade Launcher proximity bonuses.. Do those bonuses benefit the score more than the fast-killing headshots..??

I must admit that I do not know the answer to that question.
But on the other hand, in my personal experience, I've gained most score without using either grenade, grenade launcher or AWP.
I am impressed by your interest to research this, Luskan.

Here is the deal:

Score for a brown seal:
(640 - X position on screen) *0.33 is added to your score, giving a maximum distance-score of 640*0.33 = 211.2.
Add to this some points for the actual kill, the blood splatter and the headshots and you have your total score of 400-ish.

Score for an activist:
(640 - X position) * 0.66.
.. and for his white seal cub:
(640 - X position) * 0.33 ; hence, you can really benefit from killing the activist and his cub early for a maximum of whooping 633 points.

Perhaps my previous statement was made a little hastily. The position of which the enemies are killed can surely make a great difference to your score. I am still not sure what would cause the delay leading to this dilemma though.

Ok, but Asker mentions the AWP instant gibs and Grenade Launcher proximity bonuses.. Do those bonuses benefit the score more than the fast-killing headshots..??
A gib gives you a 25 point bonus + points for all the blood particles created (every particle of blood created gives you a 4 point bonus). Also, you get $5 extra for a gib.

The grenades and the grenade launcher uses some silly formula to calculate score and money depending on how many enemies were hit with the same grenade. I don't have time to delve into too much details but it's some kind of exponential increase and the bonus can get huge very rapidly.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 11:25:48 PM by asker »
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Offline rashban

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2009, 01:33:32 AM »
Since I don't have the Seal Hunter source at hand at the moment, I wouldn't dare go too much into detail, but generally:
-It's better to kill enemies sooner rather than later as explained above
-While you don't get cash from the enemies (except headshot bonuses and such) that spawn in the turtle phase, you still get some score from them (I think 5% of the original score value for each scoring "event")
-The scoring for hits and headshots in general favours multiple weak hits since each blood particle the game "intends" to spawn gives score (but before multiplication by "blood level") and particles spawned after a hit is proportional to the square root of the damage of the hit. Headshots cause double damage, and double amount of particles.
-This is somewhat intentional to counteract the fact that gibs give much more score than a regular death would.
-Piercing bullets lose some of their damage per enemy hit, but each pierce increases the score multiplier of the next hit (i.e. 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x), this also increases the cash value of piercing headshots.

The Grenade/Grenade launcher "multiple enemies hit"-cash bonus is proportional to N*(N-1) (where N = enemies hit). The logic behind this being: For grenades, the first enemy damaged gives 0 bonus cash, the next gives 20, the third 40, the fourth 60, the fifth 80 and so on (for grenade launcher it's 0, 15, 30, 45...). So 1 enemy hit = $0 bonus, 2 hits = $20 bonus, 3 hits = $60 bonus, 4 hits = $120 bonus, 5 hits = $200 bonus.  This formula is in no way silly (but check out the amount of cash a well placed grenade in the penguin horde can yield).

The Grenade/Grenade launcher proximity-cash-bonus gives up to $30 bonus cash for each enemy damaged by a grenade if the enemy is within a certain radius (approximately half the radius of the damage-radius).

I think both of these apply (with different values and not rounded to multiples of 5) to score from grenade hits as well, but I can't remember off-hand.
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Offline rashban

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2009, 12:08:31 AM »
Since there was some more questions about score, I thought I'd clarify how it works in The Seal Hunter 1.2.

Let's start with some philosophy: What is a good game? What parameters should give a high score?

For example, should the score reflect progress in the game (as in "how far on level X did you make it before you died?"), or should it reflect how much money you earned and have left, or should it be mostly about keeping the enemies from even getting close to the right, or should it be more about making fancy kills with lots of headshots, lots of gibs, lots of multihit piercing bullets, lots of well-placed grenades, as opposed to general spam and holding the fire button?

As it is, it highly emphasizes lots of headshots (in quantity, not damage -  so shotgun, rather than sniper rifle), keeping the enemies to the left (although this is relatively speaking more important in the early-game), gibs, and of course progress. It doesn't quite take into account the damage of each hit, so weapons with high damage per bullet (especially sniper rifle) do tend to give a bit lower scores since you get fewer hits and fewer headshots with those weapons. However, this is sort of counteracted by some of the bonuses described below.

If I recall correctly, the base score values for killing enemies are:
Brown Seal - 50
Activist - 70
White seal pup - 25
Penguin - 75
Fat seal - 150
Polar bear - 200
Turtle - 300 (500 if grenade-gibbed)

It also takes into account x-coordinate of death (from 212 to 0 depending on where on the screen the death occurs), and method of killing, as in:
A generic hit is worth 11 points
A headshot is worth 51 points
For hits, you also get a blood bonus, equivalent to 4*square root(damage of hit), for headshots this is equivalent to 4*square root(damage*3), so a headshot from the pistol would give 51 + 4*sqr(16*3), which amounts to about 79 points. For reference, a headshot with the AWP is worth about 300 points whereas a normal AWP hit is about 150 points, including blood bonuses.

Thus we can calculate the score of your little seal to 50 + 79*2 + XBonus, which gives a Xbonus of 4 at the far right, and 194 at the far left (take into account that the "true" x position may deviate a pixel or so from the actual centre of the seal graphics).

Certain enemies give lower scores (notably the fat white seals for which hits are worth 6 plus blood modifier). Certain weapons have different values for hits (magnum hits increase per level, and are at 25/125 on level 2 for example, and shotgun hits are worth less per pellet but the entire cascade does add upp quite a lot!). Piercing weapons give extra score from consecutive hits from the same bullet, and splash damage gives score as described above.

Gibs score higher:
Seal - 75
Activist - 100
Penguin - 200 (yeah!)
White pup - 50
They also give a bonus score which relates to animal type and level:
Seals give 120/80/60/48/40
Activists give -/100/75/60/50
Penguins give -/120/90/72/60
White pups give -/40/30/24/20

Splash damage weapons give multihit bonus (see cash value of that above), and score equal to 2.5x that bonus. The proximity bonus can be up to 100 points for a bulls-eye grenade hit.

A very high scoring event would be gibbing a seal on the far left on level 2, using the $2500 shotgun:
Blood bonuses -150 points
Hits -  70 points
X bonus - 200 points
Death - 75 points
Gib bonus - 80 points
Cash 8*10+5+50 = 135 points
This amounts to about 710 from a single seal, quite a bit more than the 212 you got from a far-right kill of a brown seal using 2x headshots with the pistol.

Oh, you also get 10000 for each completed level (including the boss, of course).

This is just scratching the surface of all the variables the scoring system takes into account but I hope it makes some sense.
Hilsen fra Øslo

Offline asker

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2009, 12:17:54 AM »
God damnit rashban, get a hobby or something!
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Offline Luskan

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2009, 05:08:33 PM »
rashban
Thank you for your exhaustive answer!
The scoring system seems to be a bit more advanced then I first thought!
Will probably have to read it a few more times to really melt all information  :P

Again, thank you!
~ Art of Sealhunting ~
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Offline Gifflo

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2009, 10:07:36 PM »
Ever heard of information overload :)?
Anyhow, thx for all of it!
A very interesting post indeed ;)!
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Offline Oskar

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2009, 10:39:15 PM »
God damnit rashban, get a hobby or something!

Considering what he wrote I'd say he's got one ;)
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Offline BK_239

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Re: Money + fast kill = Score
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2009, 09:03:00 PM »
Always shoot them in the head, I'm pretty sure.
Go close to them in the first level to get some high score and money!